Breakaway Group Seeks Unity with Rome
August 17, 2012 22 Comments
It’s the Society of Pope Leo XIII. The Catholic Herald:
The English leader of a breakaway traditionalist group has said that he wishes to be reconciled with the Catholic Church.
Bishop David Bell, 41, is head of the Society of Pope Leo XIII, which upholds the pre-Vatican II teachings of the Church, particularly the older form of the Tridentine Mass. The society claims to have 73 bishops and 500 priests, and to be responsible for congregations totalling 8.5 million people.
In the eyes of the Church Bishop Bell’s ordination as a bishop is valid but illicit; he was ordained by bishops with the Apostolic Succession and has passed this on to other bishops he has ordained, but all of this is without the sanction of the Catholic Church.
A report in the Italian newspaper La Stampa last week said that Bishop Bell, who calls himself Archbishop of London, had prepared a “curse” against Bishop Mario Meini of the Diocese of Fiesole, Italy, but he said that this was incorrect.
“I issued a decree of anathema because he said I wasn’t a bishop. Only the Holy See can make such a declaration,” he said.
Bishop Bell met Pope Benedict XVI at a Wednesday audience in June 2011 and kissed his hand. “How did I meet the Holy Father? I asked,” he said, stressing that he applied to meet him as head of the Society of Pope Leo XII.
He said that he accepts the infallibility of the Pope. “We don’t speak out against the Holy See,” he said, emphasising that doctrinally they are close to the Church. “As far as we are concerned there’s very little difference at all,” he said. The one important point is the Tridentine Mass, which Pope Benedict has brought to greater prominence in the Church.
Bishop Bell confirmed that the Society of Pope Leo XII is “in talks” with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. “The Holy See has held private talks with illicit bishops for hundreds of years,” he said.
He accepted that if they were to come back into full communion they would have to accept the authority of the Church. “We intend to bend, to work more closely with Rome,” he said. He said that talks had already been held with officials at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
He said that if and when he would accepted back he will be a titular bishop only, without any episcopal power within the Church, and accepts that “my hands will be tied unless or until the Holy See decides otherwise”. “It is a long journey and will take a long time,” he said.
73 bishops, 500 priests and 8.5 million people? Wow.
Their website is here.
About Fr Stephen Smuts
“Wow” is right. I think Bell needs to clarify his numbers if he wants the Holy See to take him seriously. Otherwise the Vatican might think it is dealing with a used-car salesman (no offence to them by the way!) rather than a bishop.
FSSPX claims to have not much more than 500 priests.
And it’s also hard to believe they have over 15,000 lay followers per priest.
It must be a bad news day for looking for “Catholic” stuff with the Catholic Herald? A decree of “anathema”.. thats funny!
Even many of the old “anathema’s” of the papacy mean next to nothing these days! Besides those of St. Paul, for those who really preach a different gospel, perhaps Cyril of Alexandria (431), his famous 12 against Nestorius, really does mean something! Let’s hope anyway? Does Rome really care these days about real theological & pastoral error?
I doubt they have 8.5 million faithful. There are many dubious things about this man and his group, as this is the first time I’ve ever heard of them.
Still, I support efforts to bring back lost sheep. If they are humble enough to convert, then let them in.
Saving souls is always the work of God.
But indeed what does the Counter-Reformation (Trent, and all those anathema’s) mean today, in a time of Postmodernity? And again, Rome has yet to theologically explain much of Vatican II! So just what and where is Salvation and “soteriology” and the doctrines of grace? For us Protestant and Anglican Evangelicals, it must be simply “Christ Jesus”! Nothing more, nothing less!
This is very important move. Just because modern people don’t respect things, do not mean they are not important. I am very happy that the Holy See and the Holy Inquisition (CDF) are working within the Catholic faith to bring it back into line with its own teaching. Thus allowing other Traditional groups to more actively work withing the church. We must find a way not to make the mistakes of the Protestants and put our own understanding above union with the Catholic faith. There are so many threats against the Faithful from militant atheist, and other religions that are hostile to Christians of the Catholic tradition. I pray and hope that we can be more unified to face these challenges.
This fellow is known in England as a troublemaker. He has no chance of reconciling with Rome as anything other than a layman. I see no evidence of his society consisting of more than bishops. I won’t go on a trashing rampage, but I don’t know this man, and I have better things to do with my time.
I believe the outlandish clergy and laity figures come from the fact that this particular group of vagantes are an off-shoot of the Duarte Costa schismatics. The journalist may be conflating the two with regards to membership.
As Fr. Anthony says in some regard, who really cares? Do they represent any real form of “Catholicism”? It appears not! But the fully historical RCC, here we need to engage, even Protestants too! I am reminded how Karl Barth engaged with Rome, and he was even invited as an observer to Vatican II! Certainly we need new days of ecumenical dialogue, but sadly some are afraid of it? Most every one knows I am an evangelical on the doctrines of grace, even something Calvinist, but this is not the 16th century, and the great enemies are not so much each other, as a culture that has gone mad secular! And wow, how I see this in the American election for their president! The time appears short? Who knows what next madness is coming for both church and culture? I do hope I am wrong, but I so doubt it!
This is a complete scam.
According to the website, one of the contacts is in Australia – The Most Reverend Dom Neville Anderson DD. BA(ThL) Archbishop of Ballarat District Superior, whose office is to found at 2720 Ballan Road Muskvale 3461. Photos of him (in full regalia) featuring the interior of the Cathedral Church of Our Lady & St Michael the Archangel are on the link to the diocese. Twenty years as an Anglican priest after ordination to the diaconate and priesthood at St Paul’s Cathedral, Melbourne – Roman Catholic ordination(s) by Bishop Gow.
Be careful about going onto some of the websites of this group. I just managed to avoid a “malware” virus by shutting down my computer and rebooting. I don’t know if it is the “society” – but nothing is clear, nothing adds up. For once I agree with Robert Ian Williams – it is all a sham.
In other news, Hell has put in an order for a dozen space heaters.
This David Bell person looks very familiar to me, but I can’t think where I have seen him before.
Perhaps as “Cardinal James Atkinson-Wake”, former Prefect of the “Congregation for the Faith” of ICAB?!
It’s a total sham, an outrage and will put the cause of serious disaffected and estranged Traditional Catholics with Rome on the line.
Hmm, no, that doesn’t ring a bell either. It will come to me.
Never heard of this group, their website sucks, no listing of congregations or bishops – delusions of grandeur perhaps?
It appears this is some kind of English Catholic group? Vaginate’s of some kind.
*It seems this blog is the place where people like to take their ecclesiastical shots!
Btw, what will we do when we see the seamless Robe & Body of Christ, Himself? Rev. 5: 14 answers that…”fell down and worshipped [HIM]! Perhaps we should do more of that now!
You start, we’ll follow right behind.
It will be just “glory” itself to see Christ Jesus! No more sin or self!
If you want a really exotic one, this “pope” (Alexander IX) is in Spanish:
http://icaremanente.blogspot.fr/2009/04/el-verdadero-papa-de-la-iglesia.html
The Christian Palmarian Church of the Carmelites of the Holy Face (Spanish: Iglesia Cristiana Palmariana de los Carmelitas de la Santa Faz), commonly called the Palmarian Catholic Church (Iglesia Católica Palmariana), is a schismatic Catholic church with its own pope, Gregory XVIII.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmarian_Catholic_Church
So, there are these antipopes and their little groups. What else is new? There have been antipopes since the first few centuries of Christendom.
It all seems suspect. Where is the Inquisition when we need it?
It is worth remembering that August is traditionally known as “the Silly Season” of British journalism – when journalists latch on to non-stories to fill the columns -and it seems the Catholic Herald is not immune.
Bell is not to be confused with one Jonathan Blake of the Open Episcopal Church who calles himself the Archbishop of Greater London,
As far as I can tell, Bell (who styles himself Arbishop of London) is one of the “episcopi vagantes” of the Igreja Católica Apostólica Brasileira set up by the late Carlos Duarte Costa, who was appointed Bishop of Botucatu in Brazil and consecrated by Sebastian Cardinal Leme da Silveira Cintra on 8th December 1924 but who was excommunicated in 1945. By the time he died in 1961 he or bishops purportedly consecrated by him had purported to consecrate some 37 bishops in the ICAB and the numbers have continued to grow.
Typically, the CDF approach to such matters is that it does not recognise such ordinations as having any canonical effect. Catholic Bishops who perform such consecrrations/ordinations and the receipients are considered automatically execommunicated. See Actae Apostolicae Sedis 1976 at p 623 (one has to scroll down to the page and the decree is in Latin).